Mentoring Young Beekeepers (162)

Episode 162 – Mentoring Young Beekeepers

Jim Tew: Podcast listeners, as amazing as it is for me to say this, spring is not that far away. I've got a unique situation that I've talked about off and on in some articles and it may be the previous podcast I've mentioned it indirectly. I've got a grandson and some of his friends who want to get involved in beekeeping. That's not the same as just helping anybody else. That's my grandson and you've got to get it right. That's my daughter involved in this. Got Dr. Becky Masterman here, who's going to help me slog through some of the best ways to do this. Becky, say something.

Becky Masterman: I'm so happy to be here and talk to you about this, Jim. This is going to be a fun 20 minutes.

Jim: I hope so. It didn't sound all that fun to me, but hey, let's just wait and see. I'm Jim Tew.

Becky: I'm Becky Masterman from Beekeeping Today podcast.

Jim: We're coming to you on Honey Bee Obscura, where today I want to talk about what should I do, buy a nuc or buy packages for my grandson as he begins his bee project.

Introduction: Welcome to Honey Bee Obscura, brought to you by Growing Planet Media, the producers of the Beekeeping Today podcast. Join Jim Tew, your guide through the complexities, the beauty, the fun, and the challenges of managing honeybees. Jim hosts fun and interesting guests who take a deep dive into the intricate world of honeybees. Whether you're a seasoned beekeeper or just getting started, get ready for some plain talk that'll delve into all things honeybees.

Jim: Dr. Masterman, it was a surprise. My grandson drove me to a bee meeting over in Illinois. If there's any Illinoisans listening, you know what I'm talking about. He just became consumed with beekeeping and I thought he'll burn out. He didn't. Now, spring's rolling around and he sees me as a mentor. I'm four and a half hours from him. We need to be electronically literate. There's going to be a lot of electronic transmissions going on. Say something that'll help me with this concept.

Becky: Jim, this is so exciting. I love the fact that you're going into this and you're being very thoughtful about it because you feel like you're breaking a rule because he's too far away and you can't jump in your truck and run over there and help him if he has a problem. I think that the mentoring rules of the universe will provide an exception in this case, because I am very confident that you have the skills to be able to do a remote mentoring project with your grandson and you're going to be able to have lovely conversations on the phone.

You're going to be that person that he calls when he finds something that's confusing. You're going to be able to talk him through it. He's going to be texting you. There are going to be videos. You're going to be Zooming conversations in the bee yard. This is a great use of our current technology so that you can mentor your grandson.

Jim: Can you give me just a minute to get my arms around all that?

Becky: Sorry. I'm too excited [laughs] .

Jim: Yes. I haven't even thought about Zooming from the bee yard. I'm just a solid traditional beekeeper. You assemble your wooden frames and you nail them correctly and glues are very handy and wire embedding. Of course, I don't do any of that anymore. I do what everyone else does, but that's the mentality I have. When my grandson said that I am to be his mentor, I was adamant that you need someone local, someone that's right there at your elbow. Even if I do take this on, I still want him to have someone who can tell a queen from a drone and can have some idea of what this punctured capping means. Yes, he can send me pictures. We can Zoom. We can talk.

It's about a four and a half hour distance that separates us. I guess I'll be going there some for other reasons, but I didn't see this one coming, Becky. This is-- no one. My family sometimes listens to these, so this is the brutal truth. Out of all the 14 people in my family, there is one lone beekeeper and I'm it. This grandson thing is really-- I've not been down this path before. He's about 18 years old now and strong, athletic. He should know better.

Becky: I think this is great. I think that you might not want to get your hopes up because it is fun to share beekeeping with somebody in your family. I know that I couldn't get my husband into the bee yard if I tried. This is such an opportunity for you to really just grow your relationship with your son and you have so much to share with him. This is going to be fun. The other thing is you just have to stick to the rules. Remember the rules. It's not just getting a mentor, but it's taking a class, it's reading, and it's joining a beekeeping organization. Does your grandson have a beekeeping organization close by?

Jim: I did check. Of course, he hasn't because everything's on me, so I checked. There is a local group in the Kalamazoo area there and other groups in the area. He's got just a wealth. There's a data supply company there in Albion, Michigan that's just 12 miles from him. He has all the big pieces. The thing is I'm just admitting to the listeners that this is the first time that I've taken this kind of project on. To mentor any one of the listeners from afar would be one thing, but when you've got your daughter involved and your grandson--

In fact, if I can just keep talking for a minute because I'm hyped up over this. I took another grandson out to the bee yard and I had to get another daughter's permission to do that. I said, "Can I take this kid?" He was about seven. I'm going to show him the bees and we're not going to do anything dramatic. She said, "Yes, you can take him back there, but he better not get stung." That just hangs in the air. we're going to go back to 20 beehives and hundreds of thousands of bees. Strange things happen when you're back there.

It just put a pallor on everything that I'm going to do this, but I did and nothing happened and the story had a happy ending, other than the fact that it just peeled away the veneer and let me see my daughter's concern about my grandson being hurt back there. Different daughter, different grandson, different set of conditions, same old man in the middle of it.

Becky: Jim, I have to ask you, has the grandson who drove you to this bee meeting, has he been in a live colony of bees before?

Jim: Yes, he has with me.

Becky: Okay. He has.

Jim: He's never done anything with them.

Becky: It's over. If he's actually been out there and leaned in and now he wants to become a beekeeper, this is happening. This is exciting.

Jim: There's another aside. You see, through the years I've taken them out there. This is an industry secret that to buy kids clothes, protective gear is stunningly expensive and they can usually wear it for a year or two before they outgrow it and then you've got this pristine baby size beekeeping gear. I've still got all of that. They've long since outgrown it, but he's been in the bees off and on, fully suited through the years. Of course, every year you had to take bees to their classroom. We've been through all that. He's had the perfunctory introductions.

Let me tell you what I was thinking. If I'm going to be sitting here four and a half hours from him, do I want him to buy a package of bees or would I suggest that he and his friends buy a nucleus colony? By buying a nucleus colony, do they usurp or miss or skip the whole queen introduction process that you have to go through with a package?

Becky: There are definite pros and cons to both methods and if you're looking at the queen, the definite pro to a nucleus colony is that you're just gently moving the frames from one box to another, and there's a chance that they might even see the queen when they're introducing the nuc to the deep hive box. When it comes to the package colony, there are some other options. I know that at the University of Minnesota, we used to instruct that you direct release those queens when you are hiving a package. You directly release them down into the mass of bees on the bottom board and watch her walk off.

The next edition of the new manual actually gives beekeepers the option of taking out the cork and just placing the open cage in between two frames and letting her walk out herself in her own time, in order to not induce any anxiety on the beekeeper as far as getting her out of that cage. There are pros and cons to even-- how did you start most of your colonies, nucleus or package?

Jim: Give me just a minute to rethink about how I did that and we'll take a break. We'll hear from our sponsor and then I'll tell you the dirty truth.

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Jim: How did I start most of my colonies? There was no single way. We'd get packages every year. We'd make splits, raise queens. When I worked for Ohio State, occasionally there would be a donation, beekeeper would pass on and had these bees and take a ride off from the survivors. At one time or another, we've been through everything. The package thing has always been entertaining. It's been exciting to go up to the truck and there's beekeepers there and there's brand new beekeepers and there's old beekeepers and it's just a giddy moment in beekeeping. That's almost worth the trip up to a package arrival site.

Becky: Yes. The package day has always been one of my favorite days in the spring when I was working for the university. I'll say that there is a big difference between your two colonies if you started on a package or start with a nucleus, just the way it looks because you are seeing it from the beginning as far as drawing comb. Although a nucleus colony does look easier in the beginning, it can be challenging if there are any disease issues that are coming with the comb. Also, it could be a problem as far as the mite population, because you could get a stronger mite population in the very beginning. That's going to vary from nuc to nuc supplier.

Jim: Those are two excellent points. I may simplify the queen introduction procedure, but by simplifying that, then I may amplify an earlier mite buildup from varroa or other diseases. I guess chalkbrood, there's some other things still around, but varroa and related viruses are my biggest nemesis most of the time. I guess there is some of that.

Becky: I hate to say this as the beekeeping world we live in, but depending upon the mite pressure and the packages, the easiest way to do your first mite treatment is to apply a dribble of oxalic acid with a package. If you put a sticky board in the bottom, chances are you'll see a drop, not because the package suppliers aren't doing their best. Again, not because the nuc suppliers aren't doing their best, but varroa is just something we've got to live with and manage.

Jim: You're just really not helping right now. [laughter] You're just really not helping because I'm thinking, "Okay, now I've got to tell this kid who's only seen the inside of a beehive probably five or six times, I'm being sarcastically funny, but beekeeping isn't exactly as simple as it was decades and decades ago when your biggest concern was American foulbrood. There's absolutely nothing gained by going back and reminiscing about those days. They're gone. I've tried to tell my grandson and my daughter and my son-in-law that this is like getting a puppy now. This is going to take some time and it's going to take some commitment and these bees will not be able to keep themselves indefinitely. Heads up.

I think after talking with you and just thinking, and I'll be happy to hear from any of the listeners who've been through situations like this, where you're trying to help from afar, that I would probably still go with the packages, and get ready for this, on package day, I will move heaven and earth to be there on what would be probably a two or three day trip to shake two or three or four packages that he is going to be getting. I was teased by myself. You get a nice nuc and in my mind, Becky, it's a beautiful nuc.

It's disease-free. It's got a great queen and you drop those five frames, maybe four frames into the center of a deep brood body. It just seems like in less than three weeks, you need more and more space. That thing just explodes. That's the beekeeping in my mind. That's the optimistic beekeeper. The package thing, if you get the same weather, same flow, that too would help. I'm back to thinking it'd be simpler just to buy packages in many ways and just arrange to be there on that big day and then just write it off as being a granddad.

Becky: I think that sounds like a great plan. I knew you'd be there for package day. It's hard to pass up package day. Even if package day is delayed or it comes early, because that's what happens with package days. You have to wait for the shipment to actually arrive or the packages to be made, but that's going to be worth a little bit of travel inconvenience so that you can be there and take part in it.

Jim: We've never hoodwinked anyone on this podcast. Nothing about this is scripted. I've just had a thought, Becky, why wouldn't I just buy the packages here in Ohio and take them to Michigan? I would do the package day thing. Then that way I've got the bees already. I'm not trying to coordinate getting up to a package site in Michigan and then find out that there was a truck delay or whatever. If I'm doing that, if I'm going there, and listeners, we decided to do that right here live, that I would actually go there for package day. Why wouldn't I just pick them up on my package day here and then coordinate with them on the other end and haul them up there?

Becky: I think that's a great idea. They already probably traveled a fair bit to get to you. What's another four hours? I just recommend bringing that one-to-one sugar syrup and putting it in a bottle if they need to cool down a little bit. That's a really good plan.

Jim: Then we can do the oxalic dribble and just show them and get it off to a good start. It all depends on him and listeners and Becky. If he changes his mind, then this was essentially a wasted episode. The burden is on him and his friend and their biology teacher to pull this off. If any one of them backs out, then I don't know if the critical mass would fail or not at that point. I am being honest and truthful. I am apprehensive. I've mentored, I've talked, I've done all these things all my life, but it was never quite this personal as what may be expected of me. You really want this to work. I don't know how many trips I can make to Michigan to keep working with a defective queen or whatever's going wrong there.

Becky: You're going to pick those big days. You're going to pick the hiving the packages. You might be there for that honey harvesting. You might be there the next year to help divide those colonies, or even to help them winter, but it does a couple of well-planned trips. I think that's going to, you're going to fully execute and serve as a mentor because I love thinking about how many times you and your grandson are going to be on the phone talking about these colonies. It's a very special relationship. To add that mentor-mentee relationship to your grandfather-grandson relationship, that's going to be very special, bringing bees into the relationship.

Jim: I certainly hope so. As we give out of time, you'd think how much more can he have to confess? I do have one more confession. I want this to be as successful as it can be for a year or two, because he's going to leave to be going to a university somewhere. I don't have much hope for the bees at that time. I don't think they're going to survive it, but I want to plant the seed so that when he is in a position in life that he can reminisce about the times that he and granddad did this bee thing. Then, when he has the time and the financial basis about him, do this bee thing proper. All I'm doing right now, Becky, is planting a seed that I probably won't be here to see develop, if that makes sense.

Becky: In my mind, he's bringing those bees with him to college, because every college needs a beekeeping club.

Jim: Okay, all right.

[laughter]

Becky: I do think that you will be giving him such a great gift because there are a number of beekeepers out there who have been fans of yours and who've benefited from your advice. It just makes sense that your grandson gets to get that same benefit and he gets to learn from one of the best. This is exciting, Jim.

Jim: You're very kind, and I really hope that you're very correct, because if he chooses to do this, we'll go through with it. All right, I've not done this before, so stand by. If anybody has any advice or experience on how to help a family member jump in the deep end of the bee pool, contact us. Becky, I always enjoy talking to you. Thank you for being so agreeable and taking so much of your time and using your expertise on such a peculiar subject.

Becky: What a fun talk. Thanks, Jim.

Jim: All the best to you.

[00:19:30] [END OF AUDIO]